The Fox Hunting Ban
December 26th, 2009 | 
Author: 
The General Election Campaign is under way and the opening shots were fired by Labour with an attempt at a re-run of the “Tory Toffs” theme from last year’s Nantwich and Crewe by-election, it appears that Gordon “Dirty Slugger” Brown has got his way again, Labour will fight a crude and desperate campaign.
The main topic will be Cameron’s promise to allow a free vote on whether to repeal the legislation on the Fox Hunting ban which will be “proof” for Labour of how the “Tories” are disconnected from the concerns of ordinary people. In reality the legislation should be repealed on the grounds that is so poorly drafted that it is unenforceable, so much so that the Police have given up even trying.
Labour’s Track Record
This is a very dangerous strategy, a double edged sword that cuts both ways and perhaps a fitting epitaph for 13 years of Labour misrule. Some 700 hours or so were spent debating this Fox Hunting Bill and only 7 hours on whether or not to start war with Iraq.
In fact Blair was opposed to pursuing the Fox Hunting Ban and kept kicking it into the long grass which is part of the reason that it took up such a disgraceful amount of Parliamentary time. However in the end he allowed this – threw his back bench MPs a bone, in return for their support on, now let me see, oh yes wasn’t it a war in Iraq ? So a few hundred English foxes a year are far more valuable than a few hundred thousand Iraqis and totally trashing their Country – really ?
Opinion Polls Show…
The trouble with opinion polls on things that don’t directly effect people is that they are inevitably flawed in the sense that they are just an ill considered ‘opinion’ based on no personal knowledge of the situation. My view of Fox hunting is the same as Oscar Wilde’s “The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible” but I also believe that this was not a suitable matter for Parliament to dilly dally with when the solution was so obvious.
Let the local people who live in the areas where this activity takes place hold a vote on the matter, if they decide to keep it or ban it then that is the decision. Perhaps one might allow a vote every decade so that the locals can review it and all Parliament would have needed to do is ensure at the Parish Council level they had the required powers to call for a vote and enforce the result.
The Nonsense that is the Labour Mentality
But of course herein lies the mote in the eye of “Big Brother New Labour” a centralising bunch of bullying failed Communists. In all respects, today Parliament should only legislate for those things that are of ‘National Interest’ and devolve matters such as this to the local level where they belong. There is no more reason for a “Townie” to decide what happens in the Countryside than there is for a “Country Bumpkin” to decide on whether or not Piccadilly Circus became totally pedestrianised is there ?
Posted in Politics | 
Tags: Conservatives, David Cameron, General Election, Gordon Brown, Political Parties, Within the UK
I hope and pray that the Hunting Act is not repealed or otherwise undone. We British led the way in banning the slave trade and in banning slavery in the Empire, we led the way in banning bear baiting and cock fighting, and we led the way in banning hunting and hare coursing. We must continue to make progress and not let our civilisation take a backward step. And, besides, if Cameron, Hague, Herbert, etc., think that repeal would be a vote winner in rural areas, they are very much mistaken.
And please don’t forget the vile ‘sport’ of hare coursing -
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoToHareCoursing/
I don’t agree with you and think it outrageous to equate the banning of fox hunting with the abolition of the slave trade, you must be bonkers. Frankly to bang on about hunting with hounds whilst accepting factory farming of poultry shows a certain lack of priorities that has become all too common of late. A few hundred foxes a year set against thousands of chickens per week, therein lies the true nature of this debate, all a matter of class envy not animal welfare.
Unlike the bullying thugs in the Labour Party who cared not a jot for animal welfare and voted only to “Do the Toffs down !”, Cameron has sensibly offered a free vote on the matter of whether the Act should be repealed or not.
In fact the Act will have to be repealed because as typical of any legislation drawn up under the present incompetent Labour Government, despite 700 hours, the drafting was totally flawed. The Police gave up trying to enforce it directly almost as soon as it reached the Statute Book. Any prosecutions have relied wholly on Hunt Saboteurs filming “offences” but the High Court have now ruled that such evidence is inadmissible because it was carried out by people unauthorised to do such filming. This actually makes sense in terms of a “chain of evidence” being tamper proofed.
Baldy,
I’m with Geoffrey on this. Killing animals for sport is just unacceptable in this day and age. This was never about class and certainly not about pest control as many hunters have confirmed. Foxes can be shot accurately and humanely where necessary and hunting with hounds certainly doesn’t have the support of rural communities that it claims to have. There are loopholes in the law that need to be addressed and that is what many groups are fighting for now. I’m part of a non-Labour campaign to uphold the hunting act and you would be surprised how many right wing voters (including Tories) and rural people do not want this act repealed.
To your other point – why would you just assume that Geoffrey accepts factory farming? In my experience many people who support the hunting act also support many other campaigns that involve animal welfare but the topic here is the fox hunting ban. Does everyone who supports it have to provide you with a list of all other things they support?
One of my friends condemns you as ‘another twat,’ but I won’t – yet!
My point about the slave trade was not to equate it with fox hunting. It was to illustrate that we British are capable of making civilised progress, whether it be in our dealings with such as those who used to be enslaved in our own Empire (of which I am still proud) or the fact that we are also capable of moving on from killing wild animals ‘for fun.’
As a ’95% retired’ farmer, I know enough about chickens to be aware that caged birds can be made relatively comfortable whereas hens in the yard or in fields can also be up to their backsides in s**t and subject to all kinds of ills.
And, so far as ‘un-banning’ the ban, it isn’t a class issue: it’s a question of whether it is right or wrong to kill wild animals ‘for fun.’ The latter is unlawful now: I don’t want it made lawful again.
As to the 700 hours of Parliamentary time, this is a hoary argument that is often trotted out. It was largely the Tories who ensured that it took so long and you know it. (By the way, I was a Conservative, but I am independent now).
I readily acknowledge that the Act needs strengthening and better enforcement, but repeal – never!
Frankly whether one of your friends thinks me ‘another twat’ and you are holding your ‘judgement’ is all rather irrelevant if not childish, do you think I care a fig for either opinion ? I publish your views as I do mine, You will note I also published your web link.
We shall not agree on this because I am neither pro nor anti blood sports, in the scheme of things it is not important which is why I object to the comparison of the death of a couple of hundred foxes a year with the abolition of the heinous crimes of the Slave Trade offensive. I agree that the Abolition of Slavery was a great moment and achievement for us British, rather marred later sadly by the Opium Wars.
This Act is poor legislation and should be repealed and replaced with something far more sensible that can be enforced. This is a local matter that should be dealt with at the Parish Council level which means that the argument of whether or not the activity is supported locally or not can be settled place by place by the will of the inhabitants of the place.
My basic points and regardless of your beliefs in the matter are simple:
Any Law passed by Parliament that cannot be enforced makes a total mockery of the Rule of Law and Parliament itself and no matter what the cause and however “virtuous” in the eyes of some, must be struck down because our legal system does not allow for a “Gallic Shrug of the Shoulders”.
The fact that this Law was passed when it was came down to a political trade off by Blair for back bench support for the Iraq War. The fact that Hillary Benn has bought it up right now is also political and a preparation for a dirty Election Campaign. Your views may be genuine, those of the Labour Party in the matter are not.
mhayworth
I think most of my views are already expressed above. But let me emphasise that the problem with the Act is not “a few loopholes”, it is unenforceable which is why the Police have given up on it. What you may not have considered in this respect is the combined effects of other legislation combined with the endless drivel emanating for Brussels.
As to other causes, on average 2 women a week die as the result of domestic violence, don’t hear a lot about that do we ?
“This Act is poor legislation and should be repealed and replaced with something far more sensible that can be enforced. This is a local matter that should be dealt with at the Parish Council level which means that the argument of whether or not the activity is supported locally or not can be settled place by place by the will of the inhabitants of the place.”
First, thank you for publishing one of my web links. You’re a good bloke (I suppose you are a bloke with the nickname ‘Baldy’!). Here is another link -
http://woollard4southeastcambs.blogspot.com/
As to your Parish Council point above, I am a member of a Parish Council. Much us as I like Parish Councils, they are not the place(s) to make decisions on such as fox hunting or hare coursing though, in our case (Swaffham Prior, Cambridgeshire), fox hunting is not a live local issue and all – I believe – of my Parish Councillor colleagues hate hare coursing.
No problem Geoffrey Woollard,
I wish you well with your independent candidature at the next general election more independents would go a long way to solving the “Separation of Powers” issue in the Commons. Unfortunately the public rarely vote for independents and always insist on “buying a branded product”.
Good Luck with that
“I wish you well with your independent candidature at the next general election more independents would go a long way to solving the “Separation of Powers” issue in the Commons. Unfortunately the public rarely vote for independents and always insist on “buying a branded product”.
Good Luck with that”
You’re more than generous, Baldy, and it’s appreciated!
As to the ‘branded products’ in the present House of Commons, it looks as though some of them are well past their sell-buy date. Independent in my book equals generic. In other words, it does as good a job at a lot less cost.
Mr Woollard
I suspect that you are right, rather a lot of them look like the “Left Overs of Christmas” on their very best days ! Whilst a limit on terms such as the American Presidency where two terms in Office is the maximum, no one I know of has yet applied this to the ordinary elected members such as MPs.
Whilst obviously difficult in a situation where there are no fixed Parliamentary terms, I wonder whether there should be a forced retirement date for Members of Parliament of say 10 years or 3 General Elections, whichever comes the sooner ?
Perhaps such a “Use By Date” might buck their ideas up and stop thinking of it as an alternative to a “proper job”
David Cameron is keeping very quiet on this subject as are the media and amazingly the Labour party .A vote winner staring them in the face and they all ignore it .
Killing any animal for sport and entertainment is disgusting .If they are such a pest why do hunts have to breed them to be torn apart by dogs? .Why are spare cubs fed live to the hounds ?.If hoodies did this they would be thrown in prison Why arent the people who do this treated the same.David Cameron is conning the voters and frankly anyone who condones hunting is showing the rest of us just how barbaric and ignorant the Conservative party really is .Gordon Brown may not be the worlds greatest showman but he is basically honest .The Conservative con men are pulling the a bloody foxes skin over the public’s eyes disguised as a blanket of scruples. How Cameron will tell his kids what huntsmen do is beyond me and it should be beyond him too.His wife should stop selling fancy handbags and look after her children and bring them up to respect all life ,not the bits that suit them. .Sometimes I am ashamed of our media and our politicians .A conservative politician came on the radio telling us the first job the conservative government would do is reintroduce fox hunting .So far he is the only one I have heard but dont they have more pressing matters to deal with than showing the world what a bunch of cruel cowardly animal killers we are .I was under the false assumption that the economy was in shreds or is that another blood stained lie.
martin F: The point is simple, this is not a matter that should have been dealt with in the way it was via national legislation. The problem with your posting is that you confuse your no doubt sincerely held views on blood sports with being anti-Tory.
On a political level, Blair wanted to keep kicking this into the ‘long grass’ as he had successfully done for some years but then along came Iraq and it was the ‘price’ his back bench MPs extracted for their support on Iraq and considering subsequent events, do you think that was a good idea ?
As I have said previously, this is a ‘local matter’ that should be dealt with on a case by case basis locally with the full support of Parliament to enforce whatever decision is made. It is also a rural matter and Trots know bugger all anything about the Countryside.
The legislation should be amended to allow local communities to decide on whether Fox Hunting is ‘allowed’ in their area and the blanket ban repealed if only because it is unenforceable by the Police who have given up trying. It has long been a principle that no Law should be passed that cannot be enforced, it merely makes a mockery of the rule of Law.
Apart from the fact you cannot type, are ignorant of the use of paragraphs, what you have written is emotional nonsense, please do sharpen up if you want to make your case, present it properly. Look at how you present yourself, a block of dense type that nobody will bother to read. Yes I have read it because this is my ‘space’.
Finally, Gordon Brown is not honest. As the current Prime Minister, he has all the hard facts at his disposal and has failed to deliver them to the electorate and explain just how bad things are and the range of cuts/tax rises that any Government would have to make, he is therefore a liar and a cheat.